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Of plagarism, copyright infringement and legalities
Well, as a few of you may know I run a Writing Forum. Considering as the site is related to writers I knew this was bound to happen eventually. Take one guess what I’m talking about.
Copyright Infringement. Good job.
As I said, I knew it would happen sooner or later but I wasn’t really prepared for it. In the past I’ve received people posting Frank Sinatra’s lyrics as their own, but that’s usually as bad as it got (it was easily refuted).
However, in the past few days I’ve had the pleasure of meeting the lovely author, Alex Severin - who, to be honest, hasn’t been that lovely as of late. A few days ago Alex signed up on the forum i mentioned above and PMed me her complains about her stories being stolen and posted on my forum as a different user. I (and my amazing moderator team) investigated the issue and decided that both sides had a decent argument and decent proof to support their case. Because of this we decided to remove the stories but leave a notice saying that there wasn’t enough information to determine who was the actual original author of the stories. While this may anger the user who posted the stories, I thought it would suffice for my dearest Alex. Well, it didn’t.
Alex originally sent me a very polite PM explaining the issue. In response I acted as I stated above. She in turn got angry and began to spam the PM boxes of my and my moderators with repetitious private messages, not giving any of us enough time to response. She wouldn’t even tell us what she wanted until the lovely email I got this morning. Apparently she wants me to publically recognize her as the author on my site! I thought I’d done plenty but removing the alleged stolen stories, which may or may not have been stolen.
Anyway, the lovely email I’d spoken of earlier is as follows:
Dear Daniel,
I’ve just drafted a letter which I will be sending to you and [Moderator #1]
very shortly. This letter details the coming legalities against your website and
‘Princes.’ It states that I will be issuing your arents (since you are a minor,)
with a Cease-and-Desist order, via my
lawyer.
Daniel, I do not want to do this. But I have to if I cannot have it
publicly known on writingforums.org that ‘Princes’ is a plagiarist and a
copyright thief. I do not have a choice. Do you realize, that all my
work, 2 novels and another 4 scheduled and numerous short stories, besides
the 2 she stole, which contain those characters, will have been written
for nothing if I cannot publicly establish my copyright on the place I
have been libeled and defamed? This work spans over 8 years. I cannot
seek an agent nor a publisher until I am vindicated. This also means, in
a full lawsuit, libel and defamation and loss of future earnings will be a
factor. I don’t want to do this either. All I want to do is write my
stories. I used to write for fun. Now I feel like giving up. What’s the
point if I don’t even have the right to call my work my own without
somebody claiming it as theirs? But you know what? I’m a fighter. And I
can’t let this go.We have also contacted another author (just the first we’ve found) who is
also being plagiarized by ‘Princes.’ She stole 2 of his poems. I’m sure
you’ll be hearing from him soon. It looks like you’re going to have an
awful mess on your hands because of this woman.Not even her pic is her! Aparently, it’s a gothic porn star named Liz
Vicious! There is nothing ‘Princes’ will not steal. She is a charlatan
from head to toe.Again, I don’t want you to be dragged into this. I have no desire to see
the end of your website. I’m sure it’s enjoyed by hundreds of people who
have nothing to do with any of this. I do not want to punish the masses
for the action of an individual.I know you’ve probably been influenced by [Moderator #1] and [Moderator #2]. Believe
me, their advice is not in your best interest. [Moderator #1] claimed that
the site is his and not yours. [Moderator #2] refered to you as ’some kid with a
forum.’ This situation is very serious, Daniel, and it will not go away.All I ask is for you to allow me the courtesy of stating my case to you,
in full. I was denied this yesterday and banned for no reason. Also, I
need reinstatement of my account so I can access the information from all
the Pms to pass onto my lawyer, should the need arise.I do hope you will allow me to show you that I am sincere and that I am
the author of the stories plagiarized on writingforums.org. I deserve that
at the very least.Again, Daniel, this situation will not go away. I have no option but to
deal with it to clear my name and save any future career I may have.I wish you well, I really do, and I detest the fact that you being given
very bad advice from your older moderators who should know better than
this.I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Sincerest regards…
Now I realize it’s utter nosense and that she can’t do anything. Probably just hollow threats, anyway. You can’t send me a cease-and-desist act if there’s nothing for me to cease-and-desist (since the stories are no longer on the site).
Feel free to comment on the issue.
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9 Responses to “Of plagarism, copyright infringement and legalities”
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You are dealing with a bully, used to getting her own way with a bit of swagger and a lot of arrogance. If you were to bend to her ludricous demand and declare her adversary a plagiarist, you could be sued for libel by the other person. It would not then matter who authored the stories; having made a declaration in writing, the burden of proof would be yours to prove the truth of what you wrote.
On that point, you might want to see if she has posted defamatory material about you or your site in other forums. She appears to have a very distorted view of what the laws really are, if she thinks she can litigate against you for *not* making an assertion you have no basis for making.
If she “cannot seek an agent nor a publisher until [she is] vindicated”, I have to wonder if there has been a question raised about her ownership of work. In that case, it will fall upon her and only her to prove that she is the legitimate copyright owner. She may be laboring under the illusion that a statement on a public forum would constitute proof.
To anyone who is running a forum or blog that posts copyrightable works: If the ownership of a piece is disputed, the prudent response is to remove the questionable work without making a judgment as to whether the submitter has plagiarized, unless a clear registered authorship is readily discernable - such as the Sinatra lyrics previously alluded to. Never be pressured into an announcement that may harm someone’s reputation without clear proof; and even then, resist making such an announcement.
You are not obligated to provide a sounding board to any nut who desires a soapbox. The (USA) First Amendmant only guarantees that the government will not suppress the expression of opinions. It does not compel any entity in the private sector to provide the means for them to do so.
You are indeed right when you say her ownership of the work is being questioned; the person who originally posted the work was furious at the accusation. She left the forum because of it and is (supposedly) pursuing legal action against the person in question.
Thanks for the response, it’s very appreciated.
I know who Alex is. She is no bully. She is no write thief either. And believe me or not I’m coming to you people with the sincere truth.
Half a year ago I was looking around at gothic avatars online. I came across Alex’ website. There I found some wonderfully written short stories. She had a myspace link on her website, so I thought ,why not add her to my friends?
Now remember this took place half a year ago.
Now this may not seem like anything important,but her stealing people’s writing is up-most utter nonsence. I honestly do not see her doing something of the sort. No matter what interest she takes, horror,vampires,goth, she isn’t so bad of a person to steal other people’s work.
She has proof. A ton of it. To not believe any of it is not right. Recently a view of her stories have been ’stolen’. These are her stories,her characters.
I myself would clearly hate to see something so bad happen to an innocent person. I can’t even stress the whole fact that they have already been published! It was nice to see that you removed the story for her sake,but as you,I and Alex herself understands. thats like taking your writer’s diginity and putting it in a desolate area to die.
Its understandable that you’d very much like to keep on good terms with both,but justice should be done. Especialy for the original writer(Alex).
I’m not here to start a fight or flame war, or anything. I’m just trying to convince that this IS Alex’s story and that you could mention that the poster was infact ’stealing’ Alex’s story because it was.
Look Do not contradict Alex as being a bully. As if you know Alex in the least bit.
look at all of her evidence, go over her website. Its all clearly there. I can not blame Alex for being so angry.
Trust me, if it happens to you guys I’m sure you would want the same thing. She does not want to use any legal actions…
Thanks for the comment, Tyler.
The fact is, the person in question may or may not have written the original work. You clearly believe she did. I know people who sincerely believe she didn’t. The fact is, I don’t know either way for sure, and as a result, I’m not going to declare either person the original author of the work. That simply wouldn’t be fair. It is not my job nor in my power to dictate who owns the copyright to anything. That’s a job for the courts, not the owner of a website. Simple logic will tell you that.
I’m not quite sure what her issue with me is. I removed the works in question. She wants me to publically state that it was hers - which I can’t do, because I don’t know that for certain. Regardless, there’s no reason why I should, if it’s hers, either - especially with the threats she’s thrown my way.
She does not want to use any legal actions - what exactly does that mean? She emailed me, I replied - yet I never received a response from her. I’m still waiting for that Cease-and-Desist Order she promised…
She doesn’t want the website to suffer and injury in responce to the act of one person. Not that there is an issue she has with you my friend. But as I say. ok,no,wait here take this as an example.
I have a writing forum.
Some Person Named Susie Q comes and posts this abosulty wonderful story. So well written,the vocabulary is fantastic. You happen to stumble by it, or you type in the name of the story and it comes up in the search engine on my forums. But where the climax ,this is actually YOUR story.
So You click the link and read it over. Your work ,your characters. You read down. Comments from all these people telling susie Q how great ‘her’ story was.
People told her she wrote a great story. but you knew it was yours. Now You want something done about it right?
So you ask me politely, but I’m not quite sure, so i simply delete it. But everyone on the forums ‘know that the story ‘belonged’ to susie Q. But infacted it belonged to yours truly. They are all pissed because you are the reason ‘her’ story was removed.
So tell me, are you perfectly content knowing that people still believe that the story was NOT written by you? Of course your not.
Do you understand what I’m getting at? Do some research,look into it. Just because both parties say that it belongs to them, doesn’t mean you cant research into it. And ask Alex for some evidence even.
She wouldn’t need to send one. But I ensure you, she is already using the law against another writing forum.
Also so sorry for my typos in the above comments, I have been in a rush.
Firstly, Tyler, I thank you for approaching me in a civil manner. That’s much more than I can say for certain people.
She doesn’t want my website to suffer? What she has to realize is that there’s nothing she can legally do to the site because if the stories are hers they’re not hosted on the site any longer.
While I “could have researched it more,” the fact is I’m under no obligation to do so. It’s not my job, and quite frankly, I don’t have the time to search the net to find out who wrote this or that. As I said, that’s a job for the courts. From what I’ve heard from both parties in this matter is that both of them supposedly intend to take it to courts. The legal owner of the work should certainly do so. I would strongly recommend this.
If I was the person who’s work got stolen, I would be content with the site removing it. While I might still be frustrated, I’d be thankful for what I got. I would pursue legal actions against whoever stole my story but I wouldn’t insist on harassing or flaming any third parties. That’s not exactly the way to make friends.
Tyler, consiser this scenario. You operate a web site that displays writing contributions from anyone who registers. One day, someone arrives angrily proclaiming that work posted by a member was stolen from that person. The member, just as angrily, insists that he or she is the actual author.
First step, you remove the disputed work. That much is a given. But then what? Both parties provide evidencw of ownership. Both have friends who vouch for the character of one party or the other. You cannot be certain, to a legal surety, who is telling the truth. Furthermore, both parties want a public pronouncement that condemns the other as a plagiarist.
Now what do you do? If you do what either party demands, you are libeling the other. The only defense against libel is to prove the claim in a court of law. Neither of the original parties are compelled to cooperate with you.
Clearly, the only course you can follow is to refuse to name either party as the plagiarist, which also means you don’t declare either one the true author. And if one or both parties continue to threaten and demand such a notice, they are being unreasonable. Furthermore, they have no legal basis to make any such demand. And what of threats of legal action is you do not comply? It is an empty threat, and is a bullying tactic from someone who is determined to get his or her own way at any cost.
If you are a friend of Alex Severin, as you say, then get her to see reason before she carries her grudge to the point she gets herself in real legal trouble over this. If she has a legitimate legal claim, it is against the other party who claims authorship, not against the forum that refuses to take sides.
If this is Andrea Johnstone then This has happened to her before well I say her it happened to another who will remain nameless for legal reasons But Mr’s Johnstone wrote a story which was claimed not hers The matter was not resolved but Mr’s Johnstone (Alex Severin) Still has this story on her blog.
Her husband is also a horror writer and I feel for the poor fellow that he has to put up with these plageraized issues with regards to his wife.
Andrea Johnstone uses the name Alex Severin these days because her old name was tainted with Plagiarism.
Whether this story is hers or not I can see that you have done the right thing in removing these stories.
But since you’re literally the middleman then she has no legal action she can take against your forum.
It’s not your job to prove who the original author is. It’s her Job to provide sufficient proof she wrote them.